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CFML Compatibility, and Why BlueDragon?
When people first learn of BlueDragon (or if they've never seriously explored it), a natural first question is why they should consider it. It's much more than just an alternative to ColdFusion. There are many unique advantages.
BlueDragon exists as an alternative that solves specific important problems for folks who've made significant investments in CFML (code and people). The key advantages over CF are:
- easier, more standard deployment of CFML on J2EE
- the only available deployment of CFML on .NET
- the only available free Server for deploying CFML in production as a standalone engine
- the only way to bundle your apps and a CFML engine to resell as a single installer
- the only way to deploy CFML without source code, using our precompiled/encrypted templates feature
- servlets/JSP integration and enterprise database drivers in our low-cost Server JX (and J2EE) edition
All of these are discussed on our web site and/or documentation. If one needs any of those benefits, then working to get your code running on BlueDragon is a small price to pay. And as I'll discuss below, we want to help you.
Beyond those advantages above, there still more benefits that one may want/need:
- the only way to spider web sites with CFINDEX and with no restriction to localhost only
- stronger whitespace suppression available
- enhanced page buffering control
- enhanced query caching management
- enhanced error page logging
- automatic loading of ODBC datasources on Windows
- low resource requirements (small footprint)
- extended reporting of runtime state in Admin console
- only available deployment of a standalone CFML server on OS X (CFMX supports OS X on J2EE only, BlueDragon supports it on J2EE and our standalone server editions)
- only available deployment of CFML on OS X for production use (CFMX on J2EE does not support deployment on OS X for production purposes, BlueDragon has no such limitation)
- only available deployment of CFML on WebSphere Network Deployment edition
- smaller footprint of J2EE deployment (as much as 90% smaller than CFMX)
- and still more
All this is in addition to the CFML tags we've added, such as CFIMAGE, CFIMAP, CFCONSTRUCTOR, CFASSERT, CFFORWARD, and more. And for those currently at CF 4 or 5, there are all the benefits that come from moving to CFMX 6.1 level functionality (CFCs, XML, web services, and more). Our web site lists the handful of CFML tags we don't support, and the Compatibility Guide explains other differences.
We strive to make BlueDragon able to run as compatibly as reasonably possible. Naturally, with as complex a product as it is, there are opportunities for improvement.
First let me say that we have many examples of customers who find that their code just runs on BlueDragon, unchanged. Some others require a few tweaks (as they may going from one release of CF to another as well). Still, there are some instances where more changes may be required. In that case, it makes sense to weigh the cost of those changes against the benefits we bring you.
Our ultimate goal is 100% compatibility, but the Compatibility Guide (available online or upon installation) explains the few differences in our support of CFML compared to ColdFusion. Just as with an upgrade from CF4 to 5 or 5 to MX, an upgrade to BlueDragon from any of these may entail some changes, which are generally minor. Note as well that challenges typically will only affect the initial migration from CF to BD.
A key point all should know is that we want to help you make the transition. Besides our docs and supportive mailing list, we work with folks over the phone and shared web sessions to help solve whatever problems they encounter.
As for the few features we may not support now, we're driven by customer needs and business value. If someone's debating whether to buy BlueDragon and can't because of some missing functionality, we can then consider how to handle the enhancement/fix request as a business decision. That simply raises the priority for handling something. Otherwise, by it being filed as a bug or enhancement request, it will be considered in time.
The same goes for performance: we want BlueDragon to be faster than CF. We can't guarantee that, as there are too many variables that influence performance (including coding choices such as best practices, frameworks, etc., platform choices such as OS, Database, etc., database design, and more). And we can't publish benchmarks against it (as the CF license precludes that). We have anecdotal evidence of enhanced performance, but the key point to know is that if you ever find BlueDragon doesn't perform better for you, we want to hear from you and hope we can address it. Again, some challenges are harder than others and their resolution will be considered as described above.
The bottom line is that many customers have made the choice to use BlueDragon. Some have found the transition to be transparent, instant, and painless. Some have found it takes a little work (and it should take still less with the latest release candidate 2 released recently). Still, for those issues that remain, it becomes a business decision for both you and us.
We always welcome the chance to talk with folks about their concerns and we hope you can tell that we want to earn your business. The feedback from most folks so far is that they're very happy with the level of effort we put forth to resolve their concerns.
To learn more about BlueDragon, please see our web site, which is very rich with details and should answer your questions, or points you to other resources where you can ask them.
Charlie:
It would be VERY cool if you could update this entry by linking each bullet point to expanded info. I'll bet that you've covered most of this stuff in greater detail in previous blog entries and elsewhere... it would be nice if this article linked to that stuff.
Yeah, I thought about that. It's not trivial (since there is often no one
particular place to read more). That's why I point to the site later in the
entry. I'll think about what I could do. Maybe I need to create a section
on our web site to explain each of these in more detail (presented in this
sort of point-by-point manner, rather than spread all over as it would be
now).
YEAH, UNFORTUNATELY, BLUEDRAGON ISN"T COMPATIBLE WITH COLDFUSION! YOU'LL
BE YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS GETTING THIS RIGHT! GOOD
LUCK TO YOU!
wally
I suppose I should just ignore that silly comment, or I could just delete
it. But remembering that what doesn't kill us makes us stronger...I'll use
this opportunity to point out that Wally here is accusing me of lying when
in my first sentence. I said, "First let me say that we have many examples
of customers who find that their code just runs on BlueDragon, unchanged."
Wally, I wouldn't have said that if it wasn't true. I can demonstrate many
such examples. Would you like to see them? If CFML applications run
unchanged on BlueDragon, how then can it be asserted to incompatible. Even
so, as I said in the next two sentences, where there are incompatibilities,
it's a choice for the developer to decide if our benefits outweight the
costs of dealing with those. Heck, the rest of the article speaks for
itself. Oy. Hecklers.
As for Wally, STFU N00B!
As for BD, let me count the ways.
Installed it my powerbook, the deployment was flawless. My friend installed it on his deb. machine... Flawless!. I am sure that it works wonderfully on Windows as well.
Macromedia has had a LOT of problems with ANY of their software deploying in a reasonable manner. Lets just say, if it were a parachute, I would be dead.
Deployment: A+
We had to change 1 out of 3 apps, and it was something as silly as a CFOUTPUT or a date somewhere. One of the incompatibilities was because the date was obviously ambiguous, and instead of just eating it and guessing like Coldfusion, it warns you. Marvelous.
Compatibility: A+
Alright, this point is short. CFMX license, $5000. BlueDragon, $500. If your math is poor that about a tenth of the cost, and MOST of the time it's FREE!!!
Avoiding wallet busting license fatigue: A+
Trey
Hi Charlie! Just wondering about your comment that you are precluded from
publishing performance benchmarks by the CF End User License Agreement.
True, it doesn't allow one to disclose the results of software performance
benchmarks obtained using the *Trial* Version without Macromedia’s prior
written consent. Is that the prohibition to which you are
referring?
Tim
Tim Buntel [tbuntel@macromedia.com]
this sounds very interesting. we have been using CF since version 3 and
like the attitude presented on this and the BD site.
i appreciate having access to information and feedback like this from a company and reading statements like "we will support it for as long as necessary" as opposed to "this is no longer supported".
just a thanks. i already have a call in to you for more info on your hosting partner program.
thx.
jc
jon cline [jon@enthusiastinc.com]
Hey Charlie,
I have made the switch to BlueDragon and I am happy so far! But one thing I am not happy about is the lack of any open forums on the New Atlanta for BlueDragon users (and interested users). Wouldn't it be good to let a community to build up and spread the word.
I would host a forum if you like!
Cheers,
David
I'm really confused about this sort of comment. We hear it more often than
we'd like. Are you saying you see the available mailing list, the
"BlueDragon Interest list" which is available off the "self-help" area of
the BlueDragon section of this site?
More likely, I wonder if your issue is that you followed the link at the top of the pages for "support" and there found that we have a web forum but it's limited to customers who pay for support? If that's the case, did you also see the link on that support page for this "self help" area.
Please tell us what more we could do to make this available resource more obvious. We really are surprised by the occasional statement of confusion.
I'll agree with David, even though you have a mailing list, a forum is so
much nicer (maybe that's why it's for paying customers).
I am searching the mailing list archives now for what I was looking for, but thought that I'd add that a forum is what I look for first for support.
Chris
Hi Charlie, thanks for your reply.
Yes I found the "BlueDragon Interest list" with no problem. But as Chris said, forums are a lot more user friendly, and more importantly they are easy to search.
I don't want to receive email after email from the mailing list, of which 90 percent I am not interested in. And I know there is a 'Digest' version, but this one massive email is an absolute mess to sort through – who has the time for that!
The majority of successful web sites on the Internet offer their users a way to interact with the site owners or other users. And this interaction usually takes place with a forum. Even Macromedia uses one :)
Imagine New Atlanta hosted a forum dedicated to BlueDragon and CFML coding in general and built up a healthy community of BlueDragon followers. Suddenly other popular web sites are linking to the forum as a useful resource, and threads start appearing in Google searches.
Suddenly you have a lot of people learning about BlueDragon.
Also, the fact is you are going to have a lot of people using the free version of BlueDragon who do not want to pay for support. If they have trouble using BlueDragon, who do they turn to for help? You don't want them going back to Macromedia do you... but you don't want to lose money giving free support as well. That's where the community forums come into play. End result – they get the support they need to experience BlueDragon to the full extent, and hopefully then sell it in to their company, friends, etc.
Just my 2 cents.
David
Guys, the assertion that people "who do not want to pay for support" are
left with nowhere to "turn to for help" is just overstating things too
much. You've agreed that you see we DO have the free mailing list, and
that it's searchable.
This is just a matter of preference. You'd prefer a forum. A few others have expressed that, but honestly we don't feel there's enough justification to have to monitor both forms of contact.
We've looked at the possibility of forum software that integrates the mailing list and a forum. If we could get that to work well, we'd do it.
We've not closed our minds on this issue, but we've not yet been swayed strongly enough.
More important, don't fear that you're missing something because the forums are held as a paid support thing. Nothing's going on in the forums that couldn't and wouldn't be handled equally well in the mailing list.
How do you search the mailing list for topics posted before you
joined?
This was the point I was trying to get across - the mailing list is NOT a user friendly option.
BTY: Has anyone else had problems with the cfimage tag?
David Crowther
David, you search it from the "self-help" area of the BlueDragon section of
the New Atlanta web site. I think you're stuck in the "support" area, which
is paid support. There is a link there, as well, to "self-help". Please
take that link, look for the "mailing list", and on that page you'll see a
link to search the archive. The direct link is http://www.newatlanta.com/p
roducts/bluedragon/self_help/archive_search/index.cfm.
Thanks Charlie, I had not seen that search feature on your
site.
David
I've tried to get bluedragon working.. It installer and the log seems to
work right, but it will not process any of my cfml code. I guess they
still have bugs to work out with the installation package. Anyone have any
tips on how it should install on windows XP pro IIS?
It seems like it would be a fine alternative to Coldfusion, if it would work! :)
Ryan [ryan@gavindebecker.com]
Ryan, this blog comment area really isn't the place to try to resolve such
problems. Could you please join the BlueDragon-Interest list? As has been
discussed in earlier comments, it's at http://www.newatlant
a.com/products/bluedragon/self_help/archive_search/index.cfm.
It's staffed by both New Atlanta engineers and enthusiastic customers. They'll all agree that it does work, and that any problem you're having can be quickly rectified.
As a quick thought, did you restart both IIS and BlueDragon after the install? It says to do that, though many seem to ignore it. Please don't reply with a comment: use my personal email at charlie@newatlanta.com if you must, but the interest list would be the best place to get connected to us.
Do you have any firm date for the release of the .NET product?
We are moving to .NET as our main language & I'm looking at BD as a way to merge our legacy application with the new code we are developing.
dan [dtamblyn@drncommerce.com]
Dan, we'd love to talk to you more about your interest in the .NET edition.
I'd like to drop you a note off-line.
Let me first make sure you (and readers) know that you can get the "tech preview" edition of the .NET version right now. It's on our web site, as a free trial.
We also plan to have a new beta out in a week or two, which will add many powerful new features enabling even more integration of CFML and ASP.NET. Very exciting stuff.
Indeed, the best way to keep up on that news isn't in blog entry's comments area. :-) We announce the new betas on our interest list first, and you can sign up or just search/browse entries at http://www.newatlanta. com/products/bluedragon/self_help/archive_search/index.cfm. It's a low-volume/high-quality list.
If you mean to ask when the .NET edition will be in production, that's not fixed yet as it will depend on how the beta goes. It's looking like the end of the year for the final production release.
I'll point out, though, that we have had people already buy the edition available now, since they needed its features that much!
I am trying to figure if flash remoting is supported in any way.
Is it, both j2ee and .net versions ?
Vlad Peter [vladpeter@home...]
The answer is yes, with additional details discussed in the BlueDragon User
Guide.
Blue Dragon looked like a great way to cut down on the cost of deploying
one of our bigger applications but it turns out that our dependence on some
of the older depracated (what an ugly word) technologies which seem to
function better in many ways than the newer (everybody needs a wad of
chewing gum stuck in their pay envelope, right?) better apps has driven us
away from what seems like a great tool at the right price (not talking
about free) in comparison to a CFMXServer. Thank you for continuing to
innovate and pushing the envelope. Will try again.
I'm wondering if you are developing something for to be compatible with the
CFMX7 version.
For instance, what about event handling ?
Thanks in advance.
Sergio, yes, BlueDragon 7 will address the missing pieces. See Vince's
entry:
Just a comment. I am impressed with BlueDragon but I am confused is it free
or does it cost $500. There are two references in this blog addressing the
same issue.
Jim, you need to take some time to read the BlueDragon web site, especially
http://www.newatlanta.com/products/bluedragon/product_info/pricing.cfm.
You'll learn there that there are 4 editions of BlueDragon: 1 is free for
deployment (Server), 3 are commercial (Server JX, J2EE, and .NET editions).
The price for those vary between 899 for Server JX and 2999 for the J2EE
and .NET editions. All 3 of those are available both as free trials and
free single-IP developer editions.
We are thinking about migrating from CFMX to BlueDragon. CF has a serious
problem allowing reserved characters (#&”) in text input. We have a
citizen complaint tracking system developed in CF and have discovered CF
coughs when a citizen enters their address using # &, or uses the double
quote (“”) when quoting an offender’s remarks to them. Does BD have this
limitation as well?
Russel, this blog may not be the best place to discuss this, as it may
involve some back and forth. You say CF "coughs" at that input, but I've
just ran code that shows it does not. Neither does BD (nor would any app
server, that I can imagine). Now, I'm just outputting what was entered, and
it all shows up, which is why I say it doesn't "cough". But perhaps you're
doing more, like inputting the data into a DB. Then the matter may have as
much to do with the datatypes of the columns, as well as the database and
drivers you're using. If you can share a little more, perhaps I can help.
After reading your comment, and your pricing info on New Atlanta's website,
I'm still confused about BlueDragon Server (not JX) licensing. I am
evaluating whether I should migrate our rather complex app. from CF5 to BD7
or CF8.
Hi AO,